Originally by: Bellum Eternus

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Lol. People are still arguing about this?

Blasters don't do enough peak DPS to justify their user over any other weapon type, including autocannons, and they don't have enough tracking to perform well at their optimal range.

Tl;dr: they suck when compared to other weapon systems. What is so hard to understand about that?

Lasers do as good or better than blasters vs. 'omni tanks'. Heck, with most of my current tank setups, EM resistance is usually the lowest of the four. Nightmare doesn't know wtf he's talking about.

With lasers and torps doing so much more DPS at range than blasters do at point blank Goumindong doesn't know wtf he's talking about either.

I'm half tempted to make a DHP Megathron just to shut people up.

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Originally by: maralt

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Edited by: maralt on 16/03/2009 16:44:38

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Because of the armor omni tank resists, a Blaster Mega does about 30% more DPS than a Pulse Geddon or Abaddon does in web range.

And when a gank geddon or a gank Abaddon can't manage to break a 1x Large Armor Repairer II, 1x Damage Control II, 2x EANM II's and 1x 1600mm Plate Tempest as long the Tempest have cap, then no, sorry to say it, but the Laser DPS is not as good as the FOTM players says it are.

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You are missing the point of this thread as anybody can quote 1 v 1 BS fits that are effective at tanking a single BS. The ammo DMG reduction a while back among other things made it so active tanking is always effective at tanking incoming DMG from a single BS while a ships cap lasts.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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If 30% more DPS isn't enough advantage in web range for a Blaster Mega, then i don't know. But for me, someone seems to think and want the Megathron to be the ultimate badass pwner like it was before.

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Firstly you must consider the fact that the 30% more dmg is easily off set by the 50% more EHP laser BS get, then you must factor in the instant ammo change and last but most certainly not least blaster optimal is 4.5km while laser optimal is 45km so there is a 1000% more optimal on top of the other factors.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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The time when the Mega was that IS OVER. Every battleships is balanced so one battleships can't just pwn the hell out of another battleship, like a Mega did long time ago. The battleships today is balanced so they should last equally long.

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And this is the problem as in its 4.5km optimal the blaster battleship is supposed to be pwning the hell out of every other BS in a 1 v 1 situation, that was its role and now not only is the 1 v 1 BS combat a form of pvp that is no longer done any more. But as you clearly point out the blaster ship no longer has the advantage it is supposed to have.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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If blasters really had 30% more damage than lasers - then there would be no room to complain, at all.
Even a 20% damage advantage would be sufficient to differentiate blasters as "the most damaging weapons in EVE".

But the real damage advantage of blasters is much smaller, and in fact it is simple to calculate:
Both mega pulse and neutrons have rate of fire as 7.88 sec. The damage modifier difference is:

mega pulse II: 3.6
neutron blaster II: 4.2

Therefore, the percentage by which neutron blaster damage is bigger than mega pulse is: 16.67%

Is 16.7% extra damage really worth the extreme CPU requirement, the bad tracking, the bad optimal range and barely enough falloff to do 50% damage at 15 km?

That 16.67% damage advantage evaporates as soon as you get just 2-3 km out of your optimal.

So yea, a 30% damage advantage would definitely make it worthwhile, but the current one is just not significant enough.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Yeh, by looking at the gun stats, they have 16.67% damage advantage.

But take in the omni tanks into the picture, then how much better will the % get then?.

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It is a mistake to lose yourself in the specifics when there are 1000s of different possibilities. I believe this is the main reason why this discussion will never end - people get too caught up in specifics.

There's a different way to look at it: if omni tanks are indeed some kind of problem, start a thread about them and discuss how they impact the game, and whether they should be adjusted or not. But in this thread we are just comparing gun stats and performance in general, not just on omni tanks.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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The way I see it, neutron blasters should have 25% more damage than mega pulse, not 16.&%
That's an overall 10% increase.

Unlike blasters, mega pulse have great range versatility - up to 46 km optimal range. Also, as mentioned before, neutron blasters have big CPU fitting requirement which makes it much more difficult to fit than mega pulse or ACs.

If you take all the possible combat engagements and average them out - lasers will have more damage on the enemy, mostly due to range advantages. Only a small portion of possible engagements benefits blasters more than lasers.

We don't need a big change to blasters or other weapons. Just a small boost

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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I also look at it this way:

if another 10% pure damage boost to blasters is considered unbalanced, then game balance should be restored by a slight nerf to blaster tracking and/or optimal and falloff ranges.

That type of balancing emphasizes blaster role as the ultimate short range weapon. It makes different weapon roles more clearly defined, something that seems to be lacking right now.

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Originally by: Mag's

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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That's why i say Lasers only have a range advantage.

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Doesn't a range advantage equate to a damage advantage?

Oh and that 16% figure, I just don't see it. (I may have very dark glasses on atm)

Lasers track far better at their optimal than Blaster, so that figure doesn't fit.
Lasers are hitting for more damage over time than Blasters, unless ofc you're lucky and land right on the target.
Even then, the small extra damage just doesn't justify the use of blasters.

I still love the 'in your face' attitude of blasters ship, but it's lost it's edge and definition.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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I also look at it this way:

if another 10% pure damage boost to blasters is considered unbalanced, then game balance should be restored by a slight nerf to blaster tracking and/or optimal and falloff ranges.

That type of balancing emphasizes blaster role as the ultimate short range weapon. It makes different weapon roles more clearly defined, something that seems to be lacking right now.

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Still, around 30% more DPS for Neutrons over Pulses in web range with an omni tank should be enough anyways.

Nothing more to add to that.

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The omni tank argument is a red herring. If blasters were clearly superior against omni tanks, people would stop fitting omni tanks. People choose to fit them now knowing that overall, they get the biggest advantage, not because they want blasters to have more damage for sake of game balance.

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Originally by: Mag's

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Reply.

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I've kept a track on almost every thread concerning blasters, and even your 30% at web range post doesn't fit with what I've noticed in-game, and see in detailed threads.

In fact large blasters only have a very small window, in which they out damage lasers, and it's no where near 30%.

Just where did you get 30% from? Just out of interest.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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And good luck fitting neutrons with LAR, MWD, and cap injector. And that 8th high slot on megathron? a medium neut at best, or cloak - then CPU is really a problem

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Originally by: maralt

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7. Lasers are not supposed to be close range so im told but they do very high damage.

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Originally by: maralt

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The thing is that none of these things is in dispute, the issue is that the up side of lasers is much greater than a 30% dmg reduction vs blasters at 4.5km

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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Quote:

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1 x Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800

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That's a joke right?

no seriously?

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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my point was that neutron blasters have bad bad fitting requirements - worse than mega pulse

This is yet another disadvantage that is supposed to make the extra 16.7% dps advantage worthwhile?
Add up all the other disadvantages, and the extra damage is not worth it.

I want damage advantage to be 10% bigger to make up for all the disadvantages

btw, dual plate mega moves like a brick and will be the death of you in many small gang engagements where the enemy has superior numbers and cruiser sized ships. And without active rep - good luck finding a station in 0.0 after every battle and spending 5 mil on repaires, or play docking games while you try to rep yourself by offlining some guns.

It's a gimped setup that works only in certain situations. All this self-gimping is not worth 16.7% more damage

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Originally by: Deschenus Maximus

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Originally by: Mila Prestoc

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so while your busy increasing blaster damage because "it makes them balanced against laser battleships" what you going to do to ACs?

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Why would a boost to blasters be mutually exclusive with a boost to ACs?

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Originally by: Chi Quan

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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EDIT: After looking in EFT. I just fitted a megathron with this in low slot.

1x Damage Control II, 2x EANM II's, 3x 1600mm RTP and 3x t1 trimarks. And with this setup with all skills on level 5, the Megathron have 40237 armor hp.

The Abaddon with the same things on with everything on level 5 have 44124 armor hp.

The Megathron here have 156363 EHP while the Abaddon have 214846 EHP. And by that, it's 37% more EHP than a Megathron have.

So where is your lie about 50% more EHP?.

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you seriously don't know how to fit either an abbadon or a mega. even Goumindong makes better fits.

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Originally by: Deschenus Maximus

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BOOST LASERS!

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Originally by: maralt

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Blasters need fixing and if ccp need to adjust the others systems as well they will do it.

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Originally by: maralt

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And yet every experienced blaster BS pilot disagrees with you and there are a LOT of blaster pvpers in this thread saying so, and the only nay Sayers are ppl who do not fly blaster BS. Or at least have no shred of evidence that they do or ever have.

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Originally by: ChalSto

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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[

Originally by: maralt

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And yet every experienced blaster BS pilot disagrees with you and there are a LOT of blaster pvpers in this thread saying so, and the only nay Sayers are ppl who do not fly blaster BS. Or at least have no shred of evidence that they do or ever have.

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Only low skilled Blaster Mega pilots are saying that.

You know, they want to be the pwn machine only after some few months with training of Gallente BS and Blasters.

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So I¦m a low-skilled bthron pilot?

k....

PS: How many alts do u have, nightmare?

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Originally by: Trader20

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Edited by: Trader20 on 17/03/2009 01:19:45

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 00:43:30
The Djego, whatever you say. CCP is NEVER gonna boost 3 other weapons systems only because of one weapon system.

That's the thing that will never happen.

Lasers is not so important and good that 3 other weapons have to be boosted instead of nerfing Lasers to be more like the 3 other weapon systems.

But still, Lasers still need to have a range advantage, because Amarr BS'es is not the ships that like to have MWD fitted, so they are slow as hell. That's why they need the range advantage.

Originally by: maralt

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And yet every experienced blaster BS pilot disagrees with you and there are a LOT of blaster pvpers in this thread saying so, and the only nay Sayers are ppl who do not fly blaster BS. Or at least have no shred of evidence that they do or ever have.

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Only low skilled Blaster Mega pilots are saying that.

You know, they want to be the pwn machine only after some few months with training of Gallente BS and Blasters.

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WTF? No mwd on an abaddon, dude gtfo, u have never pvp'd and it's showing. Bs's in general are slow as hell especialy plated ones, so the range advangtage of pulses is multiplied when considering large turret ships.

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Originally by: Trader20

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 01:21:24

Originally by: Trader20

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Edited by: Trader20 on 17/03/2009 01:19:45

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 00:43:30
quote]

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WTF? No mwd on an abaddon, dude gtfo, u have never pvp'd and it's showing. Bs's in general are slow as hell especialy plated ones, so the range advangtage of pulses is multiplied when considering large turret ships.

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Heh, yeah you can use MWD on an Abaddon, but thaaaaaaaaat's so gonna OM NOM NOM NOM you cap.

That's kinda funny actually.

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Geeezzzz u don't leave the mwd on all the time nublet

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Originally by: Trader20

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Edited by: Trader20 on 17/03/2009 01:43:14
I just find it funny that you never actually fit an abaddon outside of eft....but ur geting off topic so plz stay on topic. TY

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Originally by: maralt

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If you want to die quickly in small gang combat fly a blaster ship.

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Originally by: Mag's

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It's not even close to 30% never mind over that. Troll all you like gormy, you're wrong.

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Originally by: maralt

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30% more dmg at 4.5km is meh when you consider that from 4.5km-10km that 30% is severely reducing down and at 8-10km lasers are matching or doing the most dmg.

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Originally by: maralt

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: maralt

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If you want to die quickly in small gang combat fly a blaster ship.

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That must be the biggest joke ever.

No i'm not even kidding.

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The Deimos.........

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Originally by: maralt

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If blasters did matched or did a little more dmg than lasers upto 10-20km then we would not be having this discussion but 30% at 4.5km falling off to less dmg from 8-10km is a joke.

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Originally by: Mag's

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wow so at the awesome point of 4.5km it's 30%.
Still means next to nothing in a TQ fight.

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Originally by: maralt

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Blaster BS need to be better in gang combat than they are now and lasers are just being used as a yard stick. If anything myself and others are using laser stats ect to make sure the buff to blasters does not make blasters better than lasers in gang combat just better than they are now.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 17:10:29

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Blasters is good enough if you only can use your brain a bit. End of story.

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Using your brain will not help blasters in gang combat, as its the ability of the ships and weapons that is the problem.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Do you really think that we will listen to the lazy mans race (Amarr) who only have to press F1-F8 and watch the fireworks?.

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Their is no WE there is only you and your main.

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Originally by: Mag's

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Mag's

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wow so at the awesome point of 4.5km it's 30%.
Still means next to nothing in a TQ fight.

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This must be the dumbest thing i have readed here.

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So you're saying that most fights on TQ are at 4.5Km?
Who's dumb?

Oh and it's 'read' not readed.

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Originally by: Mag's

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Who's dumb?, do you really think a gang of mostly Gallente ships warps into 20 km and start the fight there?.

HAHAH, your really trying to look stupid here.

OFC the gang with Gallente ships will warp right on top of you ass and pwn the crap out of you dude.

And if you jump in to a system that is camped by someone, and land 20-25 km from them, then how long time does it take to MWD 15-17 km in a Mega?, meh, only some few secs. Oh noes, ONLY some few secs.

So, you still wanna try to look away from how things are?.

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Who the hell mentioned a gang of Gallente ships?????
Jeez you've lost the plot, maybe you should follow your main and stop posting.

Just out of interest, why did you stop posting with your main? Embarrest I guess.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 18:15:31

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Also, just to let you guys stop speculating about me. Yes i'm a friend to NightmareX, and this is also my Main character.

And also to let you know another thing about NightmareX. He have 10-11 days left of his forum ban. And because his alt is on the same account as NightmareX. Then he can't post with his alt either. It's simple as that. Fatality Killer is his alt.

sophisticatedlimabean also got a 2 week ban from the forum, but he have maralt he can post on.

Happy now?.

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You post exactly the same way, you structure your sentences exactly the same way (one line at a time instead of paragraphs), you link to other pages exactly the same way, you make the exact same grammar and spelling mistakes.

You are obviously his alt on another account and i do not know how old you are but if you think you are kidding anybody you really need to grow up and smell the roses.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 18:29:58

Originally by: Electric Universe

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NightmareX only have 1 account.

So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.

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Its so obvious its laughable, as i say you even make the exact same spelling/grammar mistakes in the exact same way in your posting.

But what ever its your reputation and integrity that is on the line as well as the fact that ppl do not like being lied to, if you feel you still need to lie about it thats your problem but remember most people on here know the truth and can see it as plain as day and the more you deny it the worse you look.

I suggest you man up and admit it as denying it is doing you no favors.

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Originally by: Fistme

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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NightmareX only have 1 account.

So what, because i'm a friend of him and have almost the same posting style as him doesn't mean i'm his alt, at all.

This is just getting way ridicoulus. Because you accuse me of being NightmareX, when i'm not, i'm gonna start to report peoples here that accuse me for being someone that isn't me.

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Comedy Gold

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Originally by: Trader20

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This thread is getting a little off topic so....if you were to buff blasters would you
A. Increase range (either optimal or falloff)
B. Increase Damage (or add/change damage type)
C. Decrease cap usage (to leave more cap for the mwd)
D. Increase tracking
E. Other

Please pick an option and how this would help Blasters without being op. If you don't think blasters should be buffed then plz state why. TY for ur participation.

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Originally by: maralt

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Originally by: Trader20

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This thread is getting a little off topic so....if you were to buff blasters would you
A. Increase range (either optimal or falloff)
B. Increase Damage (or add/change damage type)
C. Decrease cap usage (to leave more cap for the mwd)
D. Increase tracking
E. Other

Please pick an option and how this would help Blasters without being op. If you don't think blasters should be buffed then plz state why. TY for ur participation.

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as it needs to do better damage between 10 and 20km.

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Originally by: maralt

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Edited by: maralt on 17/03/2009 19:03:10

Originally by: Electric Universe

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No Because Blasters are mainly very close range weapon, so that's a bad idea to change the Blasters to do that.

Fix the T2 ammo instead maybe?. Make Null do better damage at those ranges. Isn't that a better idea?.

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It hardly matters if you change the ammo or the gun to achieve the effect its the end result that matters.

Option B did not specify either gun or ammo and nor did i and you have mentioned ammo changes before.

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Originally by: Lord Eremet

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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This is just getting way ridicoulus. Because you accuse me of being NightmareX, when i'm not, i'm gonna start to report peoples here that accuse me for being someone that isn't me.

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Like you and bean did nothing but report/flame each other all the time in the previous pages.

Give it a rest dude you fooling no one.


I'm dropping this now, but please continue.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Well because the Null ammo is the range ammo Blasters have, then why not fix the ammo instead so they do better damage from 10 to 20 km?.

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That is the type of balancing action we should avoid. It goes against the main role of blasters - which should be clearly defined as the best short range weapon, with poor medium-long range performance.

Good damage at 10-20 km is the role of lasers. Lasers deserve to be different, deserve to have an edge.

Each weapon should be really good at something, each weapon should have an edge. And they all should be balanced out by weaknesses in other areas.

Balancing things out by making everything more of the same makes a very boring game!

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 19:32:51

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Edited by: Electric Universe on 17/03/2009 19:17:01

Originally by: Lord Eremet

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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This is just getting way ridicoulus. Because you accuse me of being NightmareX, when i'm not, i'm gonna start to report peoples here that accuse me for being someone that isn't me.

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Like you and bean did nothing but report/flame each other all the time in the previous pages.

Give it a rest dude you fooling no one.


I'm dropping this now, but please continue.

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Anyone is allowed to report someone when they are accusing peoples for being something they don't are.

Oh noes, only because NightmareX and bean was reporting each others, does that mean i'm one of them only because i want to report someone for lying about who i'am?.

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Seeing as you are asking..........i say that in my opinion its totally obvious you are nightmareX, and you are the only person who believes you are kidding anybody.

And it is not us who are lying about who you are(irony much), we are just giving our opinions about something totally obvious.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 19:40:39

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Do you want to get reported by doing this?.

I'm serious about this, if you really want to get reported to just see that i don't have ANYTHING to do with NightmareX, then eat the forum warning.

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If you do not want ppl to answer a question do not ask a question.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Oh noes, only because NightmareX and bean was reporting each others, does that mean i'm one of them only because i want to report someone for lying about who i'am?.

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I honestly doubt the moderators are going to warn or ban anybody for answering a question you yourself asked.

Also everybody is entitled to a opinion.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Asking a question and accusing someone is 2 different things bud.

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You asked this question

Originally by: Electric Universe

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does that mean i'm one of them only because i want to report someone for lying about who i'am?.

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Our answer is yes we all think it is totally obvious you are nightmareX.

Now if you want others to answer you ask again, or you can move on and get back on topic its up to you but you cannot change my or other opinion with threats.

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Originally by: Mag's

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I also believe you to be NightmareX, being as you asked.

Another of your posting give-aways, is the question mark followed by the full stop. ?.

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Originally by: GTC seller72

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Edited by: GTC seller72 on 17/03/2009 20:11:30

Originally by: Mag's

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I also believe you to be NightmareX, being as you asked.

Another of your posting give-aways, is the question mark followed by the full stop. ?.

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Well seeing as he asked....

The one line sentence replies is a big one.

Its very telling i think.

Neither electric or nightmare use paragraphs much.

A bit like im doing now.

And as we should be on topic i think he is wrong on both toons as blasters need a little help.

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Originally by: Hepren D'narr

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Alright, I think everybody has heard your opinion already. Why dont we try to talk about other peoples opinions for a while? Quite a lot thinks / agrees blasters really need a boost, you know?

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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But why do they think that they need boost?.

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You were the one with the idea for the null buff...

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Oh noes, it's the end of the world, they have to use their brains a bit.

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Skills can be learned, piloting can be taught and brains can be used by anybody but that is no reason for blaster battleships to stay so poor at gang fighting.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Yeah, Null is not Blasters dude.

The Null ammo and the Blasters is 2 different things.

Didn't you know that?. If not, ok then you learned something new today.

Hahah, is the thing that Blasters is poor a new meme you guys have found up or?.

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I can now see why you got banned and why people dislike you so much.

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Originally by: Childstar

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And as i said, does anybody else think that the race with the best available range tank for short range weapons also has the best available EHP for the fit..40% or so more than the megathron?.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 17/03/2009 21:19:48

Originally by: Electric Universe

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And after what i know about NightmareX, he simply don't care what some guys in the internet thinks about him. He doesn't care and does what suits him best.

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Yea yea envied by men loved by women, a former steet fighting god and member of a elite special forces unit at the age of 7, who just happens to play internet space ships....i have heard it all before.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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The 37% more EHP an Abaddon have because of the resist bonus is counted up by the high resist a Megathron have to EM and Thermal and to the 30+% more DPS a Blaster Mega or a Blaster Hyperion does over an Abaddon at 5 km.

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So if having 30% less dps at 4.5km justifies having 37%-40% more ehp what justifies the 1000% more optimal 900% of it doing more damage than blasters and in some parts of that 900% 700+ dps more?.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Childstar

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So if having 30% less dps at 4.5km justifies having 37%-40% more ehp what justifies the 1000% more optimal 900% of it doing more damage than blasters and in some parts of that 900% 700+ dps more?.

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The optimal thing about Blasters and lasers have been discussed enough.

Blasters is not a med range weapon. And that does mean Lasers will do way more DPS than Blasters are doing at med range.

Blasters are still close range weapon though. Blasters will never be med range weapon. If you want to use med ranged weapons, then use Lasers.

If you want to pwn (do most DPS) in close range with BS'es, then use Blaster BS'es.

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So in other words you do not have any justification at all apart from mumbling about "roles"?.

I do not think that med range is 15km and below i think that under 15km is close range.

I also think that saying blasters should suck in the mid range because they are close range weapons is ok depending on the definition of "mid" (+15-20km is where i think "mid" range starts).

But then when lasers are called "mid range" weapons and do over 900 raw dps in close range i think is total hippocracy cos if blasters should suck in "mid" range then laser should suck in "close" range.

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Originally by: Trader20

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The offset damage is balanced by the tempest dealing damage to the mega's weakest resist (exp).

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Originally by: Trader20

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Originally by: Bozwel

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You say you aren't Nightmare, but now you're bringing up 1v1 Megathron versus Tempest?

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Lol srry electric uni, thats kinda odd that you brought the tempest into this discussion, was it an ecm fit tempest?

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Yeah, it's it quite funny that i have never taken an ECM Tempest into a 1 vs 1 comparsion to a Mega or other ships here?. Doesn't it rings a bell here?.

It clearly shows i'm not NightmareX.

It's just NightmareX that talks about that because he is more lucky with the ECM on his Tempest and then find it usefull in small scale PVP.

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Ok you need to understand.

You post the same spelling mistakes EXACTLY the same way.

You post in sentences EXACTLY the same way.

You have the EXACT same arguments.

You post them EXACTLY the same way.

You argue the EXACT same way.

You are a member of a corp that has never got a single kill or loss.

You have never done any pvp or got a single kill or loss.

So you are either nightmareX and lying or you are a clone that has had knowledge of his identity wiped but his personality kept intact. And all of us think its the former of those choices.

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Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras

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Now comming back to blaster:

I TOTALLY AGREE that they should be boosted and here what I think would do best:

10% rate of fire increase across the board of all blaster ( its a 12.5% bonus to damage with added capacitor usage to compensate )

10-15% increase in optimal across the board of all blaster (so instead of the 4500km range , its more around 5km that you start doing insane pew pew)

15-25% decrease in sginature of blaster (hit harder on smaller ship than other weaponry)

10-25% increase in tracking , so that blaster pilot (even BS) understand they need to orbit the target no just stay on top of it....)

My opinion is my own , but this should help , and for even sake stop comparing with laser , it like comparing a shotgun with a revolver ....

---

Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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So what?, i'm still not NightmareX whatever you say.

NightmareX lives in +lesund in Norway, while i live in Oslo. He can't just live in Oslo when he lives in +lesund.

Here, take a look here: LINK. Then go to Home & Contact and see his adress and that he lives in +lesund or just outside of the actually +lesund city. Yes this is NightmareX's web page.

---

Oh that reminds me you also link stuff the EXACT same way.

And started posting on here right after he got banned.

And mainly a poster as aggressive as him would not sit by and watch us call you him and not get a buddy or message on here some how.

Plus who says you live in oslo, you who we think is a lying in the first place, you could even be using a buddies account to post while you banned for all we know...

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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So what?, i'm still not NightmareX whatever you say.

NightmareX lives in +lesund in Norway, while i live in Oslo. He can't just live in Oslo when he lives in +lesund.

Here, take a look here: LINK. Then go to Home & Contact and see his adress and that he lives in +lesund or just outside of the actually +lesund city. Yes this is NightmareX's web page.

---

Oh that reminds me you also link stuff the EXACT same way.

And started posting on here right after he got banned.

And mainly a poster as aggressive as him would not sit by and watch us call you him and not get a buddy or message on here some how.

Plus who says you live in oslo, you who we think is a lying in the first place, you could even be using a buddies account to post while you banned for all we know...

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Any more poor excuses?.

---

Only good ones that none of us need anyway, certainly nothing as weak as "but im not him honest i live in oslo"...

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Originally by: Ephemeron

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For example, your statement is false if the target ship is an Ishtar.

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Originally by: Ephemeron

---

The difference between damage modifiers shows that neutron blasters do 16.7% more damage than mega pulse. Therefore, blasters are more powerful, but that is not being questioned. The question is - do blasters have big enough damage advantage to justify all the disadvantages and maintain their role as the most damaging short range weapon.

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Originally by: maralt

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The problem with blaster BS is that all they can do is 30% more DPS at 4.5km against certain types of tank.

That is it, and its not like they still match lasers or even do good DPS much above that range, or have a great tank to be able to take a pounding while they get into range and have to stay there to keep their dmg high, or a good bit of extra speed so they can get into range quicker, or even a awesome cap or a mwd bonus.

Nope all they get is a marginally greater dmg out put at a insignificantly small range and only against a certain kind of tank.

---

Originally by: Hepren D'narr

---

Hey, you could atleast try to explain us WHY it would make eve pvp so unbalanced you make it sound. It's not like everybody surprisingly and immediality would start to use Gallente BS's in gangs, instead of, say, Amarr ones? They would still lack the range, like they should, but atleast some of those changes Valadeya suggested, would make them more the way they are supposed to be.

Still, personally I suggest big boost for DPS. Keep the range and tracking as same, but blasters are lacking DPS right now.

---

Originally by: maralt

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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But hey, comparing a med range weapon system to a very close weapon system is bad mmmkay?.

---

By that reasoning as blasters do 0 dmg at laser optimal lasers should do 0 dmg at blaster optimal...after all lasers are mid range weapons not short...

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Originally by: maralt

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Maybe you should find a better argument then.

If your argument for blasters not hitting at mid ranges is because they are short range weapons then the same logic can be applied to lasers in reverse, they are mid range so they should not hit at short...

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Originally by: Hepren D'narr

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I find that sentence quite funny. Even Bellum Eternus thinks blasters require big boost at their DPS.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 18/03/2009 21:03:39




Hi nightmare...

Originally by: Electric Universe

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maralt, Mag's and Childstar, no matter what kind of idiotic crying / whining or trolling your doing.

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Oh the irony...

Originally by: Electric Universe

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I have given like 1000 reasons and have given good examples on why Blasters does NOT need a boost now. And also why such boost to Blasters would make WAAAAAAAY more problems that it fixes.

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You have given 1 crappy reason that has no real advantage in gang combat.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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I think we all can agree that it's much much better to just change one ammo type instead of changing one whole weapon type that can mess up lots of things.

---

Guns are useless without ammo, ammo is useless without guns and both are useless without a ship.

How the fix is done is not important (to anybody but you it seems) as long as it is done correctly.

---

Originally by: Koloch

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Nope I'm not going to fall for that troll. No matter how you spin it your comment that no one is flying blaster ships is bull****. I don't need to post my killmails and beat my chest. Look at any solid pvp corporations killboards and you will see a lot of blaster boats being used. You will see a lot of gallente ships period.

---

Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 18/03/2009 22:55:33

Originally by: Koloch

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Nope I'm not going to fall for that troll. No matter how you spin it your comment that no one is flying blaster ships is bull****. I don't need to post my killmails and beat my chest. Look at any solid pvp corporations killboards and you will see a lot of blaster boats being used. You will see a lot of gallente ships period.

---

While i think the comment was either poorly chosen or poorly phrased it does not change the fact that the reason that those blaster Battle ships are being flown is because the pilots using them cannot fly anything else.....yet.

And it is also undenyable that blaster BS have not moved with the times and been left in limbo as far as effectivness is concerned for the only real pvp available for BS now...gang combat. And as such blaster BS are being flown less as more people migrate to other classes of ships or even train other races.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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To you first thing. That's a lie.

---

Its not a lie as i know a hell of a lot of gallente pilots who are now either flying a differant class of ship in other kinds of pvp and only fly blaster BS in gangs reluctantly.

I also know that a lot of those pilots are cross training to fly amarr, but i know nobody who flies amarr that is cross training to fly gallente or any other race for that matter apart from maybe a falcon.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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To you 2nd thing. You talk about guns that haven't moved with the times and have been left in limbo. I think we should look at Autocannons here then.

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Thats easy, you just stop trolling this thread and select "new topic" from the ships and modules page.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Do you know why they are training other races?, maybe because they need something new to train when they have maxed the skills on one race.

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Some have high SP and maybe a very few have completed training gallente but a lot more do not have maxed skills and are switching as training gallente BS is just not worth it.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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I will never train for anything that have with Amarr to do. I don't want ANYTHING to do with something that have with FOTM to do. Even when i have maxed the 3 other races up to Marauders.

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If you had any idea about any of the marauders you would not bother training for them.

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Originally by: Zubakis

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds.

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R u sure? Try it out how long does it take to move 30km from a full stop. It will be like 30sec.

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Originally by: Cohkka

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Those things over, like with the RR you can use on the Megathron and because they have such good DPS at 5 km range is just 2 examples on why a Blaster Megathron is so popular in gang combats today.

---

Prove or STFU. Your own ally mate invited you to join their gangs from time to time, why is it they don't fly Blasterships?

And as for RR on a Blastermega... lol, you're certainly THE instance to talk to when it comes to gang combat dynamics.

---

Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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In fact, an Abaddon melts like 20-30% faster to 6 Blaster Mega's than one Mega melts to 6 Abaddons. This is when the Abaddons are at their optimal and when Blaster Megas are in their optimal range.

---

The abaddon may melt 20-30% faster but it also has 37% more ehp as well as the fact that the megas need to be at 4.5km while the abaddons can be at much longer ranges.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Stuff about RR

---

A omni tank blaster mega gets 832 gun dps at 4.5km optimal with RR fitted.

The 425 RAIL mega gets 538 raw gun dmg with faction antimatter out to 36km optimal, but has no chance of ever fitting a RR and only a 100k omni tank.

The geddon gets 606 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (760 gun dps out to 15km) with good EHP and a RR fitted.

The abaddon gets 730 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (916 gun dps out to 15km) with a massive EHP tank but no RR.

Or if you decide to fit one on your abaddon you get 639 raw gun dps out to 45km optimal (802 raw gun dps out to 15km) and a massive EHP tank and has RR.

---

Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 21:23:16

Originally by: Electric Universe

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To you first thing. Yeah, at 4.5 / 5 km, it's not hard to warp a gang into that range, or on top of the enemies.

---

The warping in at range applies to both sides and the megas only have the DPS advantage if they warp in for the first target after that the oposing gang will have burned way outside 4.5km so the dps advantage you say they would get is history.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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The 2nd thing. No, my Megathron on EFT does 1k DPS at the optimal range to the Neutrons with one RR fitted. This is ofc with 5x Ogre II drones. And on my setup i only use one damage mod.

---

I did point out that it was raw gun dps as drone dmg is normally going to be thermal as well as the fact that the geddon can fit as many drones as the mega.

Although the mega i put together had 1148 dps with drones, RR and 115k+ ehp including the usual mwd, point web ect.

---

Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 21:46:31

Originally by: Electric Universe

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To you first thing. No that's not right. It's something called webbing more than just the primary and secondary target you know.

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Its impossable to designate individual webs from individual ships onto individual ships when in a good sized gang vs gang fight.

Not only that but as you said the megas need to stick together and as such any tertiary ships they may have webbed will still have plenty of time to get out of the "4.5km blaster 30% dps advantage" range and into the ranges that lasers do the greater dps.

---

Originally by: Allahs Warrior

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Originally by: Electric Universe

---

Originally by: Zubakis

---

Originally by: Electric Universe

---

You also forgot that MWDing 25-30 km in a Mega doesn't take many seconds.

---

R u sure? Try it out how long does it take to move 30km from a full stop. It will be like 30sec.

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Yeah, and 30 secs is long time?.

---

It's only a 10-20 THOUSAND damage handicap, as well as the capacitor lost.

---

Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 22:18:44

Originally by: Electric Universe

---

You can MWD for a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time with a passive setup and one MWD and using the guns on a Megathron.

And if everyone of the Megathrons are going for the same target, then the Megathrons can RR each others while MWDing after the target to if they are close enough to each others.

---

Its not that long and the baddon and geddons cap lasts a lot longer as they do not need to mwd towards every target.

And if you wanna mwd and RR pluis fire in a mega thats fine but the word "long" and |"cap" should not be used in the same sentance if you do....

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Originally by: Childstar

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Pulse use more cap than blasters but the mega needs to run a mwd just hit hit well let alone hard.

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Originally by: Esmenet

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Originally by: Koloch

---

and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.

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Blaster megas are worthless in a mixed RR gang.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 19/03/2009 23:04:24

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Childstar

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Pulse use more cap than blasters but the mega needs to run a mwd just hit hit well let alone hard.

---

It's still 125% more cap usage than Neutrons. And believe me, your cap goes down quite fast after some mins with shooting.

---

13.65 cap per gun cycle x 7 guns = 95.55 + 276 per 4.6 seconds from the mwd = 371.55 cap per 4.6 second gun cycle or 80.7 cap per second.

The geddon uses 15 cap per gun cycle x 7 = 105 per 3.4 seconds or 30.88 cap per second.

The abaddon uses 30 cap per gun cycle x 8 = 240 per 4.3 second cycle or 55.81 cap per second.


ODD how you claim the megas cap lasts a "LOOOOOOOOOOONG" time with a mwd......and yet a lasers ships cap that actually lasts lot longer you claim runs out "quite fast".

Have you been taking gourmindong lessons in baised perspective and contradictory posting?...

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Originally by: Esmenet

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 23:12:29

Originally by: Esmenet

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Originally by: Koloch

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and just to note on your web comment. people fly mixed gangs for a reason. points and webs are spread out. yeah you'll get doubling up on targets, but it's not like 10 guys warp in on 10 and everyone puts a point and web on primary.

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Blaster megas are worthless in a mixed RR gang.

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This is a joke right?.

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Try pvp once outside sisi.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Oh and FYI, in mixed RR BS gangs the blaster mega has to choose between approaching close to the primary to do damage or staying within RR range.

As such the gang either does low dps cos the megas are out of range for most of the fight and the ENTIRE gang needs to approach each primary or the megas burn ahead to do damage and die cos they cannot be RR'd.

If you had ever flown in mixed RR gangs you would know that.

---

Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Edited by: Electric Universe on 19/03/2009 23:37:01

Originally by: Childstar

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Oh and FYI, in mixed RR BS gangs the blaster mega has to choose between approaching close to the primary to do damage or staying within RR range.

As such the gang either does low dps cos the megas are out of range for most of the fight and the ENTIRE gang needs to approach each primary or the megas burn ahead to do damage and die cos they cannot be RR'd.

If you had ever flown in mixed RR gangs you would know that.

---

Hey, the other RR Megas can go after the same target maybe?, they don't need to stay still. As long the other Megas are within the 8.5 km range then they are fine.

And if they have other targets near, then they can web the other targets to as long they are within 10 km. So it gets easier to close in to them later when we have killed the primary or whatever.

---

A RR gang with megas in it loses the DPS of ALL those megas until they finally get into hit range of each ship the gang goes after. As well as the fact that the ENTIRE gang will need to use their MWD's as well as weapons or be out of RR range of the blaster ships.

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Originally by: Gevic

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LOL, when comparing cap usage between hybrids and lasers, people *DO* know that the only ship that uses significantly uses more cap is the Abaddon right?

And that cap use between the Geddon/Apoc and the Mega/Hype in terms of guns is fairly equal, especially when you factor in the Amarr ships superior cap and cap recharge right?

Quote:

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Hey, the other RR Megas can go after the same target maybe?, they don't need to stay still. As long the other Megas are within the 8.5 km range then they are fine.

And if they have other targets near, then they can web the other targets to as long they are within 10 km. So it gets easier to close in to them later when we have killed the primary or whatever.

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Also, lol at MWDing and RRing and using guns. Like I said before, I hope you have a hauler a jump out with cap charges or something, and that you don't run out mid fight.

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Originally by: Gabriel Karade

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Wow this is still going on...

Pre-QR the Blasterthron (for example) was a good solo boat but far from 'overpowered' - jam it, neut it, keep it at arms length, don't try to go toe-to-toe with it in a slugging match unless you want to die or have the numbers to take it out quickly. It was pretty straighforward, and I dare anyone here to show me crys of 'nerf' from that time period.

Personally, as someone who flew it for 3 years solo in 0.0, I'd like to see some of that role restored. Post-QR it's too vulnerable unless you are certain you will only be fighting another Battleship, or maybe a pair of Battlecruisers (hello flashy flashy targets in low sec) but for numbers beyond that, and if you're in a gang, bring something more useful i.e a Dominix, or fly another races ships.

In 0.0 that ship is now a lame duck - oh sorry I forgot, it can sometimes come near the top of offline POS killmails...

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

---

That setup is way out of CPU.

And the MWD and Cap injector only lower you powergrid usage if your going for t1 named.

You have to use a Quad Lif MWD to be able to fit the setup, because with a Quad Lif MWD your using 22606 out og 22687.5 powergrid.

But that setup with the Quad LIF MWD and the best t1 named Warp Disruptor use 631.25 out of 606.25 CPU.

It doesn't help with some lower CPU usage on turrets implant here either.

With a -5% lower CPU usage on turrets implant, your still using 617.34 out of 606.25 CPU. Yes this is with all skills on level 5.

---

I did not use the slot 10 -5% turret cpu reduction implant i used the cheaper -3% one and the slot 6 +3% cpu one. Although the slot 6 5% gives enough cpu for the fit so it depends on what is cheaper on the market or if you only wanna use one slot.

The fit uses 622.9/624.44 cpu and 22431/22687 pg using the two 3% implants.

---

Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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But if your using 2x CPU implants, then it depends on what other implants you could have used in the Slot 6, if there is something that is way more important than that CPU implant on Slot 6, then i will ofc use something else than the Slot 6 CPU implant. Or it really depends tbh.

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Is there a point to that waffle or are you just babbling because you were wrong?.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Btw, how much does the Slot 6 CPU implant cost?.

---

Well its a +3 so i doubt its much and certainly not something a player looking to fly 3 races of marauders and faction fitted navy megas into combat would worry about.

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Originally by: Childstar

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And boy did the amarr pilots love us blaster boys for making them keep up and use there MWD's along with their RR and lasers.....

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Originally by: Theron Gyrow

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Edited by: Electric Universe on 20/03/2009 01:40:01
Meh, as long your doing everything right in a gang THAT warps on top of the other enemies gang, they are still gonna pwn the enemies as long the enemies are close to each others.

---

Let's see. You say that if
1) you're the one warping in
2) you get an on-top warp-in
3) enemies are close to each other
Megathrons will win against equal-sized gangs of similarly-skilled laser BS.

Never mind on that whether that is balanced (it's not; just the first case halves the fights where you claim Megas would be competitive, the rest reduce it much further), it is actually false against competent opponents. Yeah, you will get some kills, and you can probably win over newbies who aren't fitting MWDs on their ships, but that's it. Whee.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Theron Gyrow

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Meh, as long your doing everything right in a gang THAT warps on top of the other enemies gang, they are still gonna pwn the enemies as long the enemies are close to each others.

---

Let's see. You say that if
1) you're the one warping in
2) you get an on-top warp-in
3) enemies are close to each other
Megathrons will win against equal-sized gangs of similarly-skilled laser BS.

Never mind on that whether that is balanced (it's not; just the first case halves the fights where you claim Megas would be competitive, the rest reduce it much further), it is actually false against competent opponents. Yeah, you will get some kills, and you can probably win over newbies who aren't fitting MWDs on their ships, but that's it. Whee.

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This must be the stupiest thing here. We have to fight against noobs only because we do the things as i said over here?.

Dude, don't you have better excuses to come with[:roll:?.

---

Well i suppose a case could be made for your targets being noobs or at least lacking experiance, i mean how many experianced BS gangs just sit still and allow a gang of blaster BS of roughly equal numbers or at least large enough to beat/outfight them to warp directly on top of them?.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 13:15:27

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Hahahaha, look at all of this whining.

To you number 2. How many times do i have to say that when you warp in 10 Megas to 10 other BS'es, then you don't web only the primary dude.

You will most likely web half of the enemie gang, at least.

---

Maybe maybe not but it does not matter as the fact remains that the ones not webbed will be quickly out of range and even those that are webbed can still burn with enough speed to be well outside the tiny range blasters have the dps advantage long before the primary is dead. And then they have the dps and ehp advantage in their favor and the blaster boys are in real trouble.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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To you number 3. I don't think any smart Megathron pilots in a gang would warp in when THEY KNOW they will land long way from the enemies.


How many times do i have to tell that to before any of you get it?.

---

So like you said earlier the oposing gang needs to be sitting still and not moving and just allow a blaster gang to warp right on top of them for the blaster gang to stand even a chance of winning, but for a gaurenteed blaster win they also need to sit still after the blaster ships land and not burn some distance.

You are going to allow them to actually fire back i hope cos if so even in that utterly unrealistic and favorable scenario you have imagined above the blaster ships still take significant losses.

---

Originally by: Childstar

---

FIRSTLY ask yourself how badly you screwed up by letting those megas land on top of you.

---

Originally by: Theron Gyrow

---

If you're facing Geddons or Abaddons without MWDs, you are facing people who don't know what they are doing. Yes, you can win fights against inexperienced people, that is not the question. The point is that you are always better off with laser BS.

---

Originally by: Theron Gyrow

---

Originally by: Electric Universe

---

But running from a fight is not winning a fight though. So you better stay and fight if you want to TRY and win the fight.

---

The concept of opening the range and then easily winning a fight is really this difficult to grasp? I'm starting to understand why you think that blaster BS are a feasible option.

Quote:

---

Originally by: Theron Gyrow

---

If you're facing Geddons or Abaddons without MWDs, you are facing people who don't know what they are doing. Yes, you can win fights against inexperienced people, that is not the question. The point is that you are always better off with laser BS.

---

Do you really want me to tell this to Kil2?.

And no, what the FOTM chaser is noting i will listen to. Laser BS'es is not always the best. Yes i have said that Laser BS'es are best in some situations, and i agree to that, like the Megathron is best in some situations.

There is NO BS'es that are best at everything. The thing with that what BS'es is best in PVP, is something that noobs are asking.

---

Yes. The problem is that there is a type of BS that is pretty much worst at everything. Blaster BS are good for station camping if there is no risk of outside help, and that's pretty much it. For everything else, no matter how well you fly it, a well-flown laser BS is better.

Laser ships aren't the best for all cases, though - if you know that you are going against other BS, RR shield Ravens are very good; for gate camping, RR Tempests/Typhoons with RSB2s and TDs in the mids are good; etc. There is just never any reason to pick a blaster BS.

---

Originally by: Childstar

---

Edited by: Childstar on 20/03/2009 16:41:32

Originally by: Electric Universe

---

Posting from my friends computer now.

---

Maybe you should get your need to troll under control.

Originally by: Electric Universe

---

Saying a Laser BS is best at everything is the stupiest crap i have ever heard in EVE.

---

Who said laser BS are best at everything?...are you hearing voices again as he says quite clearly the laser ships are NOT the best at everything.....

Laser BS are by far better at all the reasonably available types of pvp for BS on TQ than blaster BS are.

Originally by: Electric Universe

---

Blasters are extremely good at gate PVP and station PVP and when your gang with Blaster Megas are the gang who are warping in on the enemies.

---

Laser BS are better at gate and station pvp than blaster BS.

Originally by: Electric Universe

---

Child, saying a Laser BS can do the same DPS as a Neutron Mega is also bull****. Well you can get the same DPS, but then you melt faster than snow.

---

Its not bull its the truth, in fact at all but a tiny window where lasers do good damage anyway pulse out damage blasters.

Your problem is that you cannot get past the utterly and insignificantly tiny range that blasters do 16%ish more dmg than lasers (yea yea it works out to 30% against certain tanks).

Originally by: Electric Universe

---

EDIT: Child and Theron Gyrow, since both of you clearly don't know how Gallente is, then take a look here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm?setview=features&bhcp=1&gameid=14&loadfeature=2822

Now, wanna prove that link to be wrong to?.

---

Well at least that confirms our points about where you get your blaster and general pvp ideas and experiance about TQ from......

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Originally by: The Djego

---

Comparing RR Gangs with non RR Gangs, also dream on, this isn¦t realsitc on TQ(if you don¦t bashing noobs).

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Originally by: TrollmoreX

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Originally by: Hell'n

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sisi warriors unite!!!!!!!

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:hi5:

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Originally by: TrollmoreX

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Edited by: Electric Universe on 21/03/2009 03:22:43

Originally by: TrollmoreX

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Originally by: Hell'n

---

sisi warriors unite!!!!!!!

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:hi5:

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Hi, i'm new to Sisi, so can you please let me join you on Sisi, so i can be as cool as you?.

---

As long as you fit a multispec II in the 5th midslot on a tempest.

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Originally by: Childstar

---

I find it odd that somebody who constantly goes on about the differance between raw dps and how it applies to omni tanks in a real situation quotes a silly page of text setup as a overview introduction for noobs joining the game and then acts as if it tells anybody anything about how that applies to actual available combat and especially BS combat.

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Originally by: Chi Quan

---

Originally by: Electric Universe aka NightmareX

---

It takes you 10 mins to find some killboards that shows exactly that, and it takes you maybe 30 mins in total to go through lots of pages with tons of Gallente BS'es that are in killmails.

---

please invest those 10 minutes and find exemples.

Originally by: Electric Universe aka NightmareX

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So no matter what you say, Gallente BS'es are the most popular BS'es in small and med size gangs because of the RR and DPS in low sec and empire.

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that is a statement without backup, i could likewise say that minmatar are kings of armor tanking. please back up your statements, a link to a beginners guide for eve on a MMORPG site is hardly proof of anything, only advertisement at best.

Originally by: Electric Universe aka NightmareX

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Yes, in 0.0 space i might find Amarr BS'es to be more better because of the ranges and the DPS at med and long range. So that's true when it's about 0.0 space.

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thanks, i'll link to that part of the post when the next but-rails-are-kings-of-sniping statement pops up.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 17:33:04

Originally by: Electric Universe

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First off Child. You don't fit a Neutron Mega with 3x Mag Stabs.

You can fit it with 1 Mag Stab and still do more DPS than a geddon / Abaddon with 2x HS II, because of the omni tanks.

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With 1 x mag stab the RR nuetron mega does 695 raw gun dps and has less EHP than the abaddon.

The abaddon with 7 guns and RR can easily fit 3 heat sinks and do 802 raw gun dps as well as having a larger EHP tank than the mega.

This gives the RR abaddon a 107 raw dps advantage over the mega RR fit at the megas optimal, totally removing the "30% more dps in blaster optimal cos of omni tank" advantage. And by allowing its lasers to easily match blaster damage in blasters 4.5km optimal and also massivly out damage blasters in ranges above 4.5km against omni tanks along with its higher EHP and available range the abbadon is the much better ship for RR.

The 7 gun RR abaddon with 3 HS also has more EHP than your mega fit.

So the abaddon fit gets more or matching gun dps in blaster optimal against onmi tanks.

More EHP than your mega fit.

And bucket tonnes more gun dps outside 4.5km.

Also use the T2 RR for faster rep cycles.

Oh and it does not use a single implant slot for fittings

How owned do you feel?.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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And also, any Slave fitted characters with Blastert Megas are going to lol at you because you use a Slot 6 CPU implant instead of a LG or HG Slave Omega implant on your fail RR geddon.

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I did not use the geddon fit, and the only ppl who use HG slaves in general pvp are those who play with pimped fits on sissi.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 18:39:26

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Why are you comparing a 1x MFS fitted Neutron Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon, why do you even compare that?.

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You chose the 1 MFS mega as your RR ship of choice not me.

You also asked me to find and fit a RR ship that was better than YOUR RR MEGA FIT so i did.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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First off Child. You don't fit a Neutron Mega with 3x Mag Stabs.You can fit it with 1 Mag Stab.......

And tell me exactly what other ships you can get to work effectivly with RR, normal Omni tank, MWD, Heavy Cap Booster, exept for any gallente BS'es?.

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The abaddon fit i have chosen has:

1. The abbadon can match the gun DPS of your 1 mag stab mega in the blaster 4.5km optimal WITH omni resists taken into account.

2. The abbadon fit has more EHP.

3. The Abaddon fit not only matches your blaster ships gun DPS even WITH omni resists taken into account, but also does that same gun dmg out to 15km where the blaster damage is a joke.

4. The abaddon can easily fit the T2 RR that gives a faster rep cycle so the abaddon gets better RR than the one the mega can fit.

5. The abaddon does not need any implants at all to fit and do all of this.


I ignored the rest of the ranting in your post about the geddon as i did not mention it, and its only you who seem to want to bring it up when im not discussing it.....

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 19:15:56

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Childstar, I ASKED YOU for the setup. Post it or stfu.

You will get my setup when you have posted yours.

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Edit your above post to ask politly and i will edit this with the fit.

You need to learn manners and grow up as you get very abusive and foul mouthed when you are losing a argument.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 20:41:43




Now lets see your uber 1 mag stab mega fit....

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 20:49:56

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Childstar

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Now lets see your uber 1 mag stab mega fit....

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Do you really think i'm gonna compare a 1 Mag Stab fitted Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon?. Haha, being funny or what?.

Dude i will also use 3x Mag Stabs if you are using it.

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Go ahead il enjoy seeing you try and fit the tank and have a good chuckle at the pathetic resists/ehp...

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 21:22:41

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Do you really think i'm gonna compare a 1 Mag Stab fitted Mega to a 3x HS fitted Abaddon?. Haha, being funny or what?.

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Fine if those are the rules those are the rules...

None of your pimped navy mega, T2 rigged, HG slave implanted sissi dream fits pal, i used no implants so nor can you.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Ok, to answer to the reply with Childstar's Abaddon setup.

Your lying if you can fit all of what you said you can fit to an Abaddon without using implants. Because that setup of yours is using 715.25 out of 700 CPU with all skills on level 5.

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It uses 715.25/721 with all level5 skills.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Ok, to answer to the reply with Childstar's Abaddon setup.

Your lying if you can fit all of what you said you can fit to an Abaddon without using implants. Because that setup of yours is using 715.25 out of 700 CPU with all skills on level 5.

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It uses 715.25/721 with all level5 skills.

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No it doesn't. On my EFT it says 700 max CPU with all skills on level 5.

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WHATEVER....MINE SAYS 721.

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Originally by: Childstar

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BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......

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Originally by: Childstar

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BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:18:09

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Childstar

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BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......

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I already told you.

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SHOW ME OR TELL ME AGAIN I CAN ONLY SEE THESE FITTINGS YOU POSTED...

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Ok back to the Megathron.

The setup i use have 1x DC II, 3x MFS II, 2x EANM II's and one 1600mm Plate + 3x t1 Trimarks in low slot. The high slot are 7x Neutrons and one best named t1 RR. The guns also have Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.

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BUT WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:24:21

Originally by: Electric Universe

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That's what's in my mind.

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I CANNOT SEE ANY MID SLOT FITTINGS ON THAT LINK APART FROM THESE BELOW.

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Ok back to the Megathron.

The setup i use have 1x DC II, 3x MFS II, 2x EANM II's and one 1600mm Plate + 3x t1 Trimarks in low slot. The high slot are 7x Neutrons and one best named t1 RR. The guns also have Caldari Navy Antimatter L ammo.

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You claim to be a honest person and call others liars regularly and also say you are about balance and fixing things....so answer the question and post your FULL fit.


SO WHAT IS IN YOUR MIDS......

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 21/03/2009 22:28:54

Originally by: Electric Universe

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Yeah the Mega is a little out of CPU before any cpu implants.

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Fine then post your fit with CPU implants and including high, mid and low slot modules....try being honest for once in this thread.

And i do not need the geddon cos i have the baddon and its better.

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Originally by: Valor Anselmo

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Navy Issue Megathron...'nuff said

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Originally by: Yakov Draken

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Pretty damn brutal ship and the tracking completely outclasses the Abaddon up close. Not my favourite Mega setup but it is roughly what you guys were arguing about and not too pricey.

The Mega is tricky to fit and it pays to have a big wallet. With a big wallet it is a suberb up close brawler. Considering how bad BS tracking is the Mega's leet tracking is very tasty.

The Abaddon is a very nice ship and I like the single RR fit. Abaddon has more range and tank than the Mega while the Mega has better tracking and damage so it is about what you are doing and gang balence.

Tides of War used blasters a lot before the speed chages and we have continued to use them a lot since. Blasters are still pwning up close, the Mega is still awesome, and now we get to laugh about all the people saying blasters are dead.

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Originally by: Yakov Draken

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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{mega} gets pretty expensive. So in other words, you can buy a Megathron Navy Issue with a nice faction fit and get everything to fit without ANY implants at all for the same price instead. And that Navy Mega will pwn the hell out of the Abaddon anyways.

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1. Mega is not that expensive to fit
2. Navy Mega is incredibly hard/expensive to fit
3. Navy Mega's attract sharks from all round

Navy Mega is an awesome ship but it does not belong in this discussion nor does it need to - the Mega is one of the best BS in the game.

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Originally by: Childstar

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But its still not as good or as effective as the abaddon fit.

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Originally by: Valor Anselmo

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...or the Abadd to the Hyperion

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Childstar

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But its still not as good or as effective as the abaddon fit.

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But then your comparing a tier 3 ship to a tier 2 ship.

It's no a bomb that a tier 3 ship can be some few % better at SOMETHING than a tier 2 BS.

Now, if we are gonna do things right, then lets compare the Armageddon to the Megathron.

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No we use the ships that can fit the desired modules and be used most effectivly in the specified role, and in this case its the abaddon that out shines by a good margin all the other BS including the mega and geddon as a gang RR boat.

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Originally by: Chi Quan

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good luck comparing a rr-hype with the above abba
/me sits back and waits for the show

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Chi Quan

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good luck comparing a rr-hype with the above abba
/me sits back and waits for the show

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It's not about comparing RR. It's about comparing the tiers to each others.

And Child, take away that RR on that Hyperion., it doesn't need it.

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So a hyperion gang with no RR vs a abaddon gang with RR...are you taking bets?..

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Originally by: Childstar

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So?, it can only fit 2 at best so the abaddon gang (you refered to 10 in the gangs earlier) have 10 RR + monster EHP and resists vs 10 hyperions with 2 lars each max and crap resists and ehp...lol get your check book ready.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Originally by: Childstar

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So?, it can only fit 2 at best so the abaddon gang (you refered to 10 in the gangs earlier) have 10 RR + monster EHP and resists vs 10 hyperions with 2 lars each max and crap resists and ehp...lol get your check book ready.

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When was a Hyperion an EHP ship?.

Compare the tier 3 to tier 3, nothing else.

When we start doing that, then i think we can find a bit more about how thing are.

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We are comparing, the hyperion gang even with 2 lars fitted each could never tank the 10 abaddon gang, but the 10 abaddons with 1 RR fitted each and their high resists and ehp could easily tank the 10 hyperion gang then 9 hyperion gang...then 8...7...6....5...

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Originally by: Hell'n

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I've seen people keep digging when they are in a hole, but NightmareX takes it to whole new levels.

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Originally by: Childstar

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Now look how much more 9 RR can rep compared to even druged and overheated lars as well as the massive more hp the abaddons have.....active tanks just do not cut it on TQ anymore for BS.

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Originally by: Hell'n AKA noob alt without any clues about PVP

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Stuffy stuff

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sisi?

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Originally by: Childstar

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Abaddon wins...

The end.

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Originally by: TrollmoreX

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Taking bets now on Electric Universe aka NightmareX getting his second account banned for at least 30days soon.

ps. Hi5 my trolling brosef.

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Originally by: Cohkka

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Originally by: Yakov Draken

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Personally I like Mega's with a very different setup to the 3xMFS but regardless I think it is very silly to say an Abaddon is simply better than a Mega when the ships are so different in their strengths. "My ship is better - it is just better!" PvP comes in many styles and flavors in Eve and ships value changes according to usage.

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This is very true, and this is the exact reason for a thread like this. Blasters work good in their intended role, but how many people do perform in this role? Their role of dealing as much damage as possible only pays of when the target has any significant tank and it's speed, distance and the size of the gang works in your favor. You're very limited in the possible tasks you can perform well and you have to sacrifice your surviveability and flexability for this.

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Originally by: Childstar

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So tbh fella all you have really shown in this thread is that you do not know how to even fit gallente BS let alone fly them and also that it is you who looks at a single stat (be it resist or dmg type/ammount) and makes wild claims about them and the ability of the ships with them.

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Originally by: Hell'n

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Originally by: Electric Universe AKA NightmareX without any clues about PvP on TQ

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Originally by: Hell'n

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Originally by: Electric Universe AKA NightmareX without any clues about PvP on TQ

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Stuffy stuff

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sisi?

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Bitter?.

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No need to get upset, we understand why you fail, it's OK to cry.

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Originally by: Yakov Draken

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Originally by: Childstar

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Edited by: Childstar on 22/03/2009 22:33:01

Originally by: Yakov Draken

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RR gangs sit close together and are the easisest target to get close to in the game. Really the range of RR's should answer this but seeing as it doesn't:

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The range of RR's means a RR gang needs to be within 8km of their own members not the hostile ships and that gives a lot of room to play with against a megas 4.5km sweet spot.

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So your argument boils down to having discovered a sweet spot for Abaddons to operate at about 8k outclassing the Mega's 4.5 optimal? This really isn't practical. The Abaddon has to be in remote rep range of its' whole gang not just the primary, same with the other side. End result is a big cluster**** nine times out of ten.

Sure you can slowboat out to 8k (MWDing will be too uncontrollable and you may well be scrambled) but then you may be 16k from a mate who slowboated out the other direction. If you all slowboated together then we just slowboat out to half way between your group and the primary - 4k's to each - and then bump the primary outside your rep range. Etc, etc, etc. We can theorize forever but in practice trying to do ballet in an RR fight is going to lead to fail 9 times out of 10 as ships that are webbed and scrambled lose contact with each other. In practice it pays to stay tight and pwn face. Maybe do some synchronised swimming when the opportunity allows - ballet no.

Btw 1 RR on an Abaddon is cute but really - 1 RR? What are you going to save with that?

Originally by: Childstar

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[The problem with the mega fit is if you trade up for even a reasonable tank you reduce its dmg and visa versa and for a ship that spends most of its time in everybody elses optimal and as a big candidate for being primary target (even in your scenarios) it needs some love.

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The Mega can get a really nice gank/tank balence with two magstabs, 2 plates - stick two RR's on if you want to contribute significantly to remote repping and it is still doing over 1000dps. Mega is expensive to get the best out of so suits corps with high efficiencies and deep pockets.

I'm part way through cross-training to Gallente as I have largely finished Matar. The Mega was the single biggest reason for me to begin seriously crosstraining to Gallente. I thought hard about Caldari for the Raven and Drake for pirate "I'm a carebear" lolz and the abiltiy to reach out and touch those pesky recons - I will train for the Drake/Raven at some stage. I have an Amarr alt with all the tasty stuff so no need to go their.

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Originally by: Polinus

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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Also this movie shows that Blasters are used nowdays: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1028983

And epic LOL. A Scorpion is owning an Abaddon in the last movie there. HAHAHAHAH. The guy that was flying that Scorp even said that he had a joke fit on the Scorp to.

Seriously guys, stop lying that Blaster Megas isn't used today.

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do you realise there is a geddon helping that mega on those kills? :P

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Originally by: Yakov Draken

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Originally by: The Djego

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Anyway. I think we should rename this thread from 'Should I give up on blasters' to 'Should I give up on this thread'.

-Liang

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This.

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Agreed. Time for the fix Large AC's save the Tempest mega thread. For too long has this injustice gone on - to the keyboards!

NighmareX please don't mess up our Tempest threads. Take the sword out of your back and stop shooting yourself in the foot!

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Originally by: Childstar

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Originally by: Hell'n

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I'm not the sisi warrior, so why would I be bitter about you failing?
Keep biting, it's funny.

I think NightmareX needs a ladder, that hole he's in is pretty deep. Strange thing is, he keeps digging.

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A liar caught is still a liar bud....

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Originally by: Mag's

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Originally by: Electric Universe

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First off, i'm from Norway and NightmareX is from Norway to. And english is not our strongest language to write.

The hole NightmareX is in is no where as big as the EFT warrior hole is. That hole is huge.

No your not a sisi warrior, but your a forum alt who doesn't have the balls to post with your main, witch means you fail much much more.

But as you can see, NightmareX haven't posted here on this forum now for about 7-8 days. He still have 5-6 days left of his forum ban.

So how can he post here?.

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Oh the irony.

Not sure which is the saddest....

NightmareX complaining about alt posting

Is a sisi warrior, complaining about peoples EFT fits, when he has no clue how to fit a ship himself.

Still claiming Electric Universe is not him.

The only reason I can think, as to why he still keeps on the pretence, is account sharing.
Electric Universe could well be his friends, but NightmareX is using it for forum trolling.

Everyone and their dog knows it's NightmareX.

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Originally by: Traderboz

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The difference being he's done nothing to make him look like an ISK seller, so who cares. On the other hand, you've done just about everything to make it look like you are NightmareX (because you are NightmareX), so hence the humor.

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